I heard a sermon this morning from Pastor David Jeremiah on Gideon’s trial of faith. For some reason, this is a passage that I’ve heard many sermons on. One of the weirdest aspects of this particular event in history is the method God used to whittle down the army to the numbers He wanted.
Pastor Jeremiah mentioned that God’s entire goal in this exercise was to demonstrate that when Israel triumphed, it was due to the hand of the Lord, and not their own strength.
The Lord said to Gideon, The people with you are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hand, lest Israel boast over me, saying, My own hand has saved me. – Judges 7:2
We must understand all of God’s activities based upon the purposes He has set forth. If He says that His intent here was to demonstrate that it was the power of the Lord that won against the Midianites, then we can ascertain that His goal in whittling down the army was NOT to cull the herd of the more unfit soldiers.
However, this was my problem with Pastor Jeremiah’s message. He did a great job in explaining that the Lord was the reason for the victory of the Israelites. He explained that thinking that God’s goal in reducing the numbers of the Israeli army was to demonstrate His power and remove the Israelites’ ability to boast is not mere conjecture. The above quote shows that to be the case. However, when he came to the part where God uses an admittedly odd method for deciding who stays and who goes, Pastor Jeremiah seems to have forgotten about God’s goal.
This is the passage I am speaking of, here:
And the Lord said to Gideon, The people are still too many. Take them down to the water, and I will test them for you there, and anyone of whom I say to you, This one shall go with you, shall go with you, and anyone of whom I say to you, This one shall not go with you, shall not go. So he brought the people down to the water. And the Lord said to Gideon, Every one who laps the water with his tongue, as a dog laps, you shall set by himself. Likewise, every one who kneels down to drink. And the number of those who lapped, putting their hands to their mouths, was 300 men, but all the rest of the people knelt down to drink water. And the Lord said to Gideon, With the 300 men who lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hand, and let all the others go every man to his home. So the people took provisions in their hands, and their trumpets. And he sent all the rest of Israel every man to his tent, but retained the 300 men. And the camp of Midian was below him in the valley. – Judges 7:4-8
Pastor Jeremiah admits that many commentators will say that there is no reason for the Lord to use this particular test; that it was merely a way to whittle the numbers down to ridiculous amounts. However, he then asks his listeners to assume that there is a purpose in God’s methods, and that this purpose is to choose the best and brightest among the soldiers for God’s army. Pastor Jeremiah explains that God only wanted the best soldiers for his army, and that this test would show who was really worthy for service in defeating the Midianites.
He explains that those who stayed mostly upright would have been more alert, watching out for a sneak attack or anything out of the ordinary. Thus, these people would be better suited to be watching the flanks of the army, etc.
He explains that those who put their face in the water were more concerned about worldly needs than anything else, and thus they were not wholeheartedly serving their commanders, etc.
He says that while God’s army contained less people, it now contained more men. (A point which is mathematically impossible without referring to percentages, which he did not.)
He also said that God wanted people who were willing to go against the majority to do what is right. (Not sure how he assumes that lifting water to your face is more “right” than drinking directly from the stream in such a situation, but that was what he said.)
Ultimately, however, I don’t find these points to be very compelling. Given that God’s purpose was to display that Israel’s victory could not have come from them, I see no reason why God would then attempt to ensure that His army was comprised of the best and brightest. Aside from the fact that Pastor Jeremiah is making parallels to the Christian life right and left, casting a great many problems on his understanding of God choosing only the best and brightest to serve Him, he has completely abandoned the first part of his message…the groundwork that should now be used to understand God’s actions.
At the very least, the Lord is merely reducing Israel’s military numbers to display His power. If you must attribute some reasoning as to why God used this method, I don’t think it’s consistent with what the Lord is doing in that passage to assume that He was trying to retain the best and brightest soldiers.
It’s far more likely, based on God’s stated purpose here, to assume that He is actually trying to retain the least fit soldiers. Soldiers know that when they can get sustenance, they need to get sustenance and get back to work. They know that if they’re without water, and in a desert climate, they need to avail themselves of any ponds or streams that they come across. They may not have another opportunity anytime soon. If a battle approaches, they know they need to be in top fighting shape, and that includes being properly hydrated.
A soldier who, on the other hand, stayed upright and drank from his hand might be more concerned with etiquette, and far less likely to want to get their hands dirty when it came to it.
Such a test would be more in keeping with God’s stated goal of eliminating Israel’s ability to boast in their own power.
However, we need to leave room for the fact that there could be no real purpose in God’s choosing His army by this method or any other. We could be reading much more into this than God intended. One thing is certain: The Lord did not give His reason, so any speculation we make is quite unnecessary. If God had wanted us to know why He chose this test, He’d have given that information to us.
This post has given me an idea. Someone needs to make a parody of 300, using this story.
*quiet*
Gideon: THIS! IS! ISRAEL!
*stylized slo-mo pot smashing*
Duh Deedodow dado dudu duduu dudee…
(that’s the 300 music from the trailer. <_<)
If you lift your hand up to drink you can see in front of you thus staying vigil. On the other hand, if you get on all fours and lap the water like a dog someone could take you by surprise. I would say the later position would make one less dependable thus showing to be the weaker choice. If God was making a point to show his power through men’s weakness, this would be the one.
Welcome to the blog, Lyle, and thank you for your comment.
I would tend to agree that IF God had a method to the manner He chose (more on that in a moment), it would be in keeping with His stated intention to remove Israel’s ability to boast in their own prowess.
However, what I’d like the takeaway point for this post to be is that the Lord does not explain Himself, here. He doesn’t say “I’m trying to keep the best, or the worst.” He says only “there are still too many men.” If God had wanted us to draw parallels for Christian living, He would have explained Himself better.
“Gideon, I only want the best and brightest to serve in my army. I will devise a method to get rid of the unfit. I don’t want anyone serving me who is not the cream of the crop. Therefore I will use THIS method to determine who stays and who goes.”
God didn’t do this, and it would be ridiculous of God to say it, since God’s whole point throughout Scripture was that man is not worthy of any sort of favor from God. God doesn’t seek the best and brightest to serve Him. “Not many wise…were called”, etc. Pastor Jeremiah’s parallels, therefore, are somewhat specious.
This is one of the prime dangers with people reading so much into passages wherein not much was said. One of the most commonly speculated passages is the one where Jesus doodles in the sand. Pastors are always saying “What Jesus COULD have been doodling was…” Or “Wouldn’t it have been neat if Jesus had been doodling thus and such?!?!” Rather than spending their time expositing the Word of God, they’re speculating about a topic that God obviously didn’t think was important enough to exposit, Himself! I hear it constantly, as though Pastors don’t think the Word of God is interesting enough on its own. It needs to be added to by them.
I guess this could have been an additional blog post, huh? lol
Thank you again for the comment, Lyle.
Interesting discussion… But if God wanted the weakest, then wouldn’t in the first test rather than letting the timid go home, they would send the ones that were courageous and ready to battle to go home? I mean why take the bravest and then take the weakest of the brave. Following your train of thought, why not take the most timid, and then take the weakest of those.
I am inclined to think, that God wanted the best. He took those that were courageous, sent the rest home. Then he took the vigilant and sent the rest home. Why? They had to have the most courageous, vigilant men to be able to do a crazy thing like going into a battle against crazy odds, armed with strange weapons, and a strange tactic.
It takes the most faithful, most courageous and most vigilant to obey God against all odds.
Mahalo for facilitating this discussion….
Blessings…
Thank you for your comment, David.
However, I have to return to God’s own stated purpose here, which is to remove the Israelites’ ability to boast that they saved themselves. Ultimately, the why’s and wherefore’s of God’s test are less useful than us remembering that God needed no one to best the Midianites. He certainly didn’t need the best and brightest in Gideon’s army.
I am far more in agreement with the commentators who say that there really was no purpose for the choice, or at least we’re not told why God chose it. What we are told is that God wanted no doubt left in the minds of all who would contemplate this history that it was God, and not man, who destroyed the Midianites that day. Any conjecture about why God chose the various tests must be understood in light of what God told Gideon, namely that he didn’t want anyone to be able to say their own hand delivered them.
This is a great discussion, as iron sharpens iron… you’re really making me think this through.. Thank you!
So if we were to take your point that God wanted to avoid the possibility that Gideon’s Army could take any credit for the victory, why wouldn’t God take the timid and shaking into the battle?
Those that passed the first test where the courageous ones, couldn’t the boast be that victory came because the fearful didn’t get in the way?
What if we reversed the selection of the tests i.e. all you are fearful and trembling, stick around. You who are courageous, you can leave, we won’t use you for this battle? Wouldn’t God get a greater glory?
I need to remind myself that Gideon didn’t design these tests, God did.
So God said the criteria for both tests. God knew what outcome He wanted.
The outcome of the first test was that the fearful and timid went home. The brave remained. I believe that’s what God wanted. (I believe God wants strength and courage i.e. with Joshua, God said be “strong and courageous”)
So what outcome did God want out of the second test? Did God now want the worst of the brave? That would be an interesting thought. First cut, take the good, send home the bad. Second cut, take the bad, send home the good.
Yes it is possible that God would do that, His ways are so far above ours.
However, could it be that God needed men that were courageous and vigilant, so they could carry out a seemingly nonsensical strategy that would result in God’s will being demonstrated i.e. delivery from the enemy, but not as the exclusive result of the army’s action?
After all God told Gideon in chapter 6 (14, 16), that Gideon would rescue the people, that Gideon would defeat the Midianites.
I’m thinking that God needs people that are courageous, vigilant and faithful to carry out His will to save, redeem and defend the world from the enemy. We need to have courage that He does not have plans for us to fail, we need to vigilant in keeping our eyes on the Master, and we have to have faith to obey Him completely, even though it doesn’t make sense at the time.
Again, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this discussion. I am blessed by your perspective.
First off, God stated His purpose, not me. His purpose is stated as follows:
“The Lord said to Gideon, The people with you are too many for me to give the Midianites into their hand, lest Israel boast over me, saying, My own hand has saved me.” – Judges 7:2
So, God was whittling down the numbers to remove Israel’s ability to boast. This cannot be argued down using logic, or any other method. God wanted the credit for delivering Israel.
Something else to notice, here:
“And the Lord said to Gideon, With the 300 men who lapped I will save you and give the Midianites into your hand…” – Somewhere between Judges 7:4-8
Who is saving Israel? Not the strong, brave men. Not the weak, fearful men. My ultimate point, and the point of this passage as stated by God, Himself is that it doesn’t matter what method God used. His desire was to remove the ability of Israel to boast.
There is a problem with your logic when applied to the Christian life, however, that I’d like to address. God does not NEED man at all. God does not NEED us to be strong to be shown to be powerful. In our weakness, He is strong. When it comes to choosing whom will serve Him, he does not look for the most fit. When it comes to serving God, none of us deserve in any way the grace which He bestows on us.
This was my problem with Pastor Rogers’ sermon. God is not looking for a few good men, as it were. He’s not looking for those who seek after Him. No one seeks after Him except that they first be drawn by Him. Paul tells us this.
So when it comes to Gideon, it doesn’t matter whether the men were weak, ineffective, fearful men or not. The point of the passage is the might and power of God. We are not told why God chose the method He did, but we ARE told that God chose it to remove the Israelites’ ability to boast. There’s no getting around that.
Couple that with what we are told elsewhere in Scripture about God’s self-sufficiency in Scripture, and we can easily see that no, God does not need the strong at all. He’s perfectly capable of destroying Midian on his own. He condescends to USE man, but does not NEED man. Thus, I see no reason why God needs the strong only.
Interesting debate. The reason God showed for possible boasting was not courage or vigilance but shear numbers. So, in this respect I think both sides of this debate are correct. It seems God did in fact choose the better qualified courageous and vigilant soldiers, but that doesn’t mean there was a reason to boast. No one, no matter how brave or vigilant, can claim seriously victory when outnumbered by those odds. It was all God, all the way.
I’m not saying God could have chosen the strong. However, I think we all need to recognize that God doesn’t NEED the strong to serve Him. He doesn’t NEED anyone.
When God finds us, we are weak, broken, and not worthy of the gift of eternal life. We don’t even choose Him…He chooses us. We are dead in our transgressions.
My main problem is when people take this passage and try to draw parallels with the Christian life, saying things like, “If you want God to use you, you need to be strong, and ready to serve him.” No. The Lord uses everyone, saved and unsaved, relatively weak and relatively strong. (Relative to humans, because to perfect, holy God, we’re all weak, sinful and ugly.) If he wants one of us to be strong, HE grants us the strength.
God didn’t NEED the strong to fight for His cause. Just like He didn’t need the many. God wanted the glory from this battle, since it was God’s hand that delivered the Midianites to Israel. The problem I have is with the implication that God needed the strong in order to defeat the Midianites. Comments like this:
“They had to have the most courageous, vigilant men to be able to do a crazy thing like going into a battle against crazy odds, armed with strange weapons, and a strange tactic.”
That makes me think that people believe that without the strong, God would have been out of luck, here. THAT is a dangerous belief, and not supported by Scripture here or elsewhere. God didn’t have to have the strong. He may have chosen the strong, though I don’t believe that’s proven at all.
This is another one:
“However, could it be that God needed men that were courageous and vigilant, so they could carry out a seemingly nonsensical strategy that would result in God’s will being demonstrated i.e. delivery from the enemy, but not as the exclusive result of the army’s action?”
Again, I have to caution against using statements like this. God does not need anyone. He condescends to USE us, sure. We’re blessed for it. But He did not need the strong here.
Rick, I know that David made those comments, and not you. I’m just posting my hesitancy to say things like “God needs the strong”.
Taliesin,
I like this discussion. I am studying the book of Judges and am writing on the portion about Gideon. Taken in its context, the exploits of Gideon, his conversations with the Angel of the Lord, Gideon’s fear, the fear of his men, and the cycle of Israel repeatedly forsaking God and then crying out for Him to save them is all a part of understanding this.
In this, I see God’s patience with a fearful, cynical, hesitating guy (not really a great specimen) to accomplish His will. He could have done it without Gideon or any man, but he chose to use Gideon. It should not be surprising that God may have chosen the weak:
27But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 1 Corinthians 1:27 (NASB)
In this same vein, did you realize for instance that Gideon’s men had a trumpet in one hand and a pitcher with a torch in the other? What were they holding their swords with? The had no offensive or defensive capabilities when the deliverance began.
The whole point was that it was God’s victory, God’s way. After all was done and won, those “best and brightest or worst and not-so-bright” fell into idol worship again.
–surefoot
If you’re studying Judges, then you have perhaps a clearer picture than many that the entire history of redemption is based on God, and no one else.
Judges is all about the cycle of returning to sin even after miraculous things have been done in the lives of the Israelites. In fact, when you take the whole thing in context, my point becomes even more apparent, as you pointed out. They all went back to the same sins. They all did was was right in their own eyes.
The fact that God used such as these to accomplish His purposes is a tremendous bit of grace.
Thank you for the comment.
You’re welcome. The older I get, the more I realize what is cost to redeem me. As I saw on a tee shirt: “I am the Wretch the song talks about”.
It’s sometimes hard to balance in our minds the new sense of worth and strength given to us by the Lord against we we would be without HIM.
If we are strong, it is only because of HIM. All that we are and have originates from HIM, and we are vessels for HIS Spirit. One of the most encouraging thoughts passed along to me was that the jar is not worth much by itself; it’s what it contains that makes it priceless.
It gives me great joy to know that God has loved me this much.
A bit off thread, but had to mention it.