Comments on: H.R. 3490 is a bunch of crap… http://blog.thedow.org/2008/05/14/hr-3490-is-a-bunch-of-crap/ This tagline intentionally left blank. Wed, 09 Dec 2009 04:05:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Taliesin http://blog.thedow.org/2008/05/14/hr-3490-is-a-bunch-of-crap/comment-page-1/#comment-9704 Taliesin Fri, 15 Aug 2008 15:45:54 +0000 http://blog.thedow.org/?p=708#comment-9704 First off, this is a pared down version of the original article I wrote. You have no idea what evidence was presented to me, nor do you know who presented me with this "hearsay" evidence. As a matter of fact, the people whose business is suffering because of Indian "generosity" and "benevolence" are the parents of a close personal friend of mine. Your denial of what these land grants are doing to a business they've PERSONALLY spent a couple decades building doesn't change the fact that it's happening. Secondly, I don't hate the Tuolumne Band of Me-Wuk Indians, or any other federally recognized Indian tribe. My post said nothing to or about Native Americans as a people or their culture. Your statements about hate are baseless, and quite frankly, unimaginative. Every time anyone pitches a justifiable fit about the government appropriating things and giving them to others, all of a sudden everything is about "hate speech", or "racism". Quit being moronic and look at the ARGUMENTS!!!!! What I said was that I don't support land that had been in the Bureau of Land Management passing to the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Businesses have use permits for this land, and the REAL, ACTUAL trouble they've had from tribal security giving their customers problems and the ruling body of the tribe not helping them maintain the road is enough to cause them to oppose H.R. 3490. I also mentioned that I don't like these Tribal Gaming Compacts. Still don't. The right to open a casino should be granted to everyone, or no one. (I vote for everyone, personally, though I don't gamble, myself.) You mention your rights. According to the Constitution of the United States of America, you have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Regardless of what happened in the past, the Constitution is the ruling document of this nation. If you refuse to be a citizen of this nation, then you give up even those rights. I'm not saying what was done in the conquest of these lands was always right. However, it's done. Become productive members of society or not, but don't expect the government to just say "Oh, our forebears made a mistake, so we're going to give you all U.S. land." Not going to happen. You have every right to educate yourselves, using public schools, funded by my tax dollars. You have the right to make all of those contributions you mentioned withing the constraints of our economic and political system. Furthermore, your mention of all these wonderful things your people have done doesn't even come close to being relevant to the discussion! What about the businesses that suffer because land they counted on and had use permits for the running of their daily activities were given to someone else? What about them. You scream about how it was taken from you, but exult when the same thing happens all over again. Oh, I see, this is payment for what happened to your people. 2 wrongs make a right, then? These business owners didn't take your land. You want retribution? Gonna have to happen in the afterlife...the people who wronged you are dead and gone. Where was I when your people have no roads? I don't know. If your lands were a part of City or County jurisdiction, and they received tax money from your people, then there was no reason they shouldn't provide the same services. I am not enamored with our government for its thievery of its peoples' money, to be perfectly honest. However, if, on the other hand, there was no tax revenue coming in from the area, no support at all, then they have no burden to provide paved roads or public services. No one in this country, has anything owed to them. We have to earn what we get. Do I support tribes owning casinos? Sure....insofar as I support any citizen's right to own a casino. So I support your people's ability to support themselves by working? Absolutely...insofar as everyone ought to work to provide for themselves and their family. End of story. First off, this is a pared down version of the original article I wrote. You have no idea what evidence was presented to me, nor do you know who presented me with this “hearsay” evidence. As a matter of fact, the people whose business is suffering because of Indian “generosity” and “benevolence” are the parents of a close personal friend of mine. Your denial of what these land grants are doing to a business they’ve PERSONALLY spent a couple decades building doesn’t change the fact that it’s happening.

Secondly, I don’t hate the Tuolumne Band of Me-Wuk Indians, or any other federally recognized Indian tribe. My post said nothing to or about Native Americans as a people or their culture. Your statements about hate are baseless, and quite frankly, unimaginative. Every time anyone pitches a justifiable fit about the government appropriating things and giving them to others, all of a sudden everything is about “hate speech”, or “racism”. Quit being moronic and look at the ARGUMENTS!!!!!

What I said was that I don’t support land that had been in the Bureau of Land Management passing to the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Businesses have use permits for this land, and the REAL, ACTUAL trouble they’ve had from tribal security giving their customers problems and the ruling body of the tribe not helping them maintain the road is enough to cause them to oppose H.R. 3490.

I also mentioned that I don’t like these Tribal Gaming Compacts. Still don’t. The right to open a casino should be granted to everyone, or no one. (I vote for everyone, personally, though I don’t gamble, myself.)

You mention your rights. According to the Constitution of the United States of America, you have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Regardless of what happened in the past, the Constitution is the ruling document of this nation. If you refuse to be a citizen of this nation, then you give up even those rights. I’m not saying what was done in the conquest of these lands was always right. However, it’s done. Become productive members of society or not, but don’t expect the government to just say “Oh, our forebears made a mistake, so we’re going to give you all U.S. land.” Not going to happen. You have every right to educate yourselves, using public schools, funded by my tax dollars. You have the right to make all of those contributions you mentioned withing the constraints of our economic and political system.

Furthermore, your mention of all these wonderful things your people have done doesn’t even come close to being relevant to the discussion! What about the businesses that suffer because land they counted on and had use permits for the running of their daily activities were given to someone else? What about them. You scream about how it was taken from you, but exult when the same thing happens all over again. Oh, I see, this is payment for what happened to your people. 2 wrongs make a right, then? These business owners didn’t take your land. You want retribution? Gonna have to happen in the afterlife…the people who wronged you are dead and gone.

Where was I when your people have no roads? I don’t know. If your lands were a part of City or County jurisdiction, and they received tax money from your people, then there was no reason they shouldn’t provide the same services. I am not enamored with our government for its thievery of its peoples’ money, to be perfectly honest. However, if, on the other hand, there was no tax revenue coming in from the area, no support at all, then they have no burden to provide paved roads or public services. No one in this country, has anything owed to them. We have to earn what we get.

Do I support tribes owning casinos? Sure….insofar as I support any citizen’s right to own a casino. So I support your people’s ability to support themselves by working? Absolutely…insofar as everyone ought to work to provide for themselves and their family.

End of story.

]]> By: audrey http://blog.thedow.org/2008/05/14/hr-3490-is-a-bunch-of-crap/comment-page-1/#comment-9699 audrey Fri, 15 Aug 2008 03:46:58 +0000 http://blog.thedow.org/?p=708#comment-9699 I find it disheartening that you have chosen to judge my tribe by things you have "heard" from others and not experiencing any of these so-called whoes. Had you gone into the town of Tuolumne, you would have found how much my tribe has contributed to the community. We have built a medical facility which sees no only our tribal members, but members of the surrounding communities! We DO maintain the roads we use, and you are sadly misinformed about what "Indians" are allowed to get away with. Just like you, we too have to follow laws and WE are held accountable for the things we as a tribe and community choose to do. Where were you with all your stereotypical judgements and points of view when my tribe had no paved roads or assistance from the city and county? When we were a poor "sovereign" nation nobody, not even you cared how my people were treated and ostracized, but now that Native Americans are given the ability to provide a means of financial stability, it is these same people who are trying to put us down and try keep us poor. I'm sorry you feel so bitter, but until you come up to our rancheria and see for yourself how improved things have become please don't judge us on hear say alone. We are able to serve our Native community, provide housing, medical and dental services, and support our tribal members with improving and empowering themselves. These are all things that the withheld for years from us. We have the right to land that was orginally ours. We have a right to sovereingty and having tribal councils. Do you show this much hate and prejudice with other races and cultures? Why must Native Americans be forced to fight for land that is rightfully theirs? I hope you have this much distain for other cultures and races, or maybe it's easier for you to jump to conclusions without properly educating yourself on the Tuolumne Band of Me-Wuk Indians and the progess we have made!!!!! One thing I feel is neccessary to point out to you since you seem to have over looked it is the 1000's of jobs my tribe has given to those who live in Tuolumne and all the surrounding communities!!! Including the Dental Clinic we opened in the town of Sonora that serves natives and non-natives alike. How is that hurting our community. Let us know if you need a job, I'm sure we could find one for you and maybe you could learn a thing or two about Native Americans and how special and beautiful our people and culture are. Hate is ugly no matter how you decide to wear it!!!! I find it disheartening that you have chosen to judge my tribe by things you have “heard” from others and not experiencing any of these so-called whoes. Had you gone into the town of Tuolumne, you would have found how much my tribe has contributed to the community. We have built a medical facility which sees no only our tribal members, but members of the surrounding communities! We DO maintain the roads we use, and you are sadly misinformed about what “Indians” are allowed to get away with. Just like you, we too have to follow laws and WE are held accountable for the things we as a tribe and community choose to do. Where were you with all your stereotypical judgements and points of view when my tribe had no paved roads or assistance from the city and county? When we were a poor “sovereign” nation nobody, not even you cared how my people were treated and ostracized, but now that Native Americans are given the ability to provide a means of financial stability, it is these same people who are trying to put us down and try keep us poor. I’m sorry you feel so bitter, but until you come up to our rancheria and see for yourself how improved things have become please don’t judge us on hear say alone. We are able to serve our Native community, provide housing, medical and dental services, and support our tribal members with improving and empowering themselves. These are all things that the withheld for years from us. We have the right to land that was orginally ours. We have a right to sovereingty and having tribal councils. Do you show this much hate and prejudice with other races and cultures? Why must Native Americans be forced to fight for land that is rightfully theirs? I hope you have this much distain for other cultures and races, or maybe it’s easier for you to jump to conclusions without properly educating yourself on the Tuolumne Band of Me-Wuk Indians and the progess we have made!!!!! One thing I feel is neccessary to point out to you since you seem to have over looked it is the 1000’s of jobs my tribe has given to those who live in Tuolumne and all the surrounding communities!!! Including the Dental Clinic we opened in the town of Sonora that serves natives and non-natives alike. How is that hurting our community. Let us know if you need a job, I’m sure we could find one for you and maybe you could learn a thing or two about Native Americans and how special and beautiful our people and culture are. Hate is ugly no matter how you decide to wear it!!!!

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